Should Canada Customs Apologize ?
January 6th, 2009
I returned from a 5-day trip to Palm Springs (yes, it was HOT! 42C) and filled out my form using $1.40 as the conversion (it was I was told $1.4099 so I was close enough) and put in my total for an amount over the paltry $200 limit fully expecting to pay the 7% GST that gets levied on the overage.
I answer the questions at the initial screening and tell the agent it was mainly clothing.
I go to the the cashier and pay. I then collect my luggage and get sent to the search area!!!
I have to wait 15 minutes for the search in full display of all other passengers exiting, which to me is a form of "shaming".
Of course I have all my receipts and after opening my luggage and showing a couple of items (they didn't open my golf club case as it became apparent that I had told the truth!) I was let go.
Now here's what makes me mad (aside from being forced to look like a criminal as mentioned above): I DIDN'T GET AN APOLOGY FOR THEIR MISTAKE!
In my mind, being sent to secondary Customs search is an indication that they thought I was lying/dishonest and in my view when they're wrong they ought to apologize. I have been searched like this almost a half-dozen times in the last 10 years and not once have they admitted they were in the wrong. Nor have I ever lied on the declaration.
End of rant....
P.S. Since I was in YEG Customs you know it wasn't AC I was flying. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
[This message has been edited by PunishedEdmontonian (edited 08-26-2003).]
[b]Sunny Day Nobody was rude just impersonal although I should have suspected that the armchair flyer would accuse me of being rude but I digress....
Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif
BTW, so far this year Q miles NW 17558, AC 10727 (plus 2 rewards tix), and BA 12068. Armchair, my a**.
Make up you're mind. Last flight you're complaining about not getting enough attention and this time it's too much attention.
[This message has been edited by tcook052 (edited 08-27-2003).]
I don't know any other way customs can complete this. For efficiency reasons it is done in plain view which also may act as a deterrant to those smuggling.
I don't think they need to apologize as they are doing their job to ensure that those entering our country are doing so legally and abiding by our laws.
I haven't ever had them apologize for anything and would be surprised if they did.
Sorry you had to go through that though! It's always nice arriving home and spending an extra half hour in customs.
You cross the border (any border), you subject yourself to the possibility of full search by customs, immigration, or other officials. This is well known by anyone ahead of time. If someone doesn't like it, they can choose not to cross the border.
In YYZ, sometimes they do take a whack of people from a plane who are obviously business travellers and just check them out.
I really don't see why this is a gross invasion or privacy. You're not being strip searched in public. You're getting your stuff gone through in the same way as you would going through security on the way out. Unless people in YEG have staring problems, I don't see why anyone would particularly care that someone had been pulled to the side and gawk at them.
Should security in the US apologize when you get "SSSS" on your boarding card and have to go through secondary inspection, if they don't find any weapons on your person?
In addition, Customs will frequently want to "verify the declaration" you have made - as a former Customs Inspector, I can think of a number of circumstances in which people declared goods of a certain value and actually turned out to have misstated the value of those goods, etc. Once case springs to mind of three people who all claimed their $300 exemption having been out 7 days. On searching their luggage, I determined that they were not in possession of a single thing that they had not bought in the US, including the luggage. Each had about $3000 worth of stuff.
Not everyone is a liar and not everyone makes a false or incomplete declaration. But people do - a lot of people do and Customs are just doing their job enforcing the law.
I often get mixed feelings when I am asked what I do or why I have been somewhere. Depending upon my mood, I will identify myself with one or the other of my "professions". In both cases, we -- the primary officer -- get into a short chat about why I make films or what I think about polls and the way politicians use them. Initially I may suspect the conservation may be probing for the purposes of determining my reason for travelling, but other times it is about the same sort of questions I get when I meet someone at a party, and they are curious about what I do. Or what anybody with a supposed interesting, or out of the ordinary, job actually does.
I got pulled after a one night trip to HKG, I had my toothpaste and shaving cream emptied by the two agents, even sodimized my Conrad bear!!!!...
Oh my god! LOL http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
I take back my remark since you have been doing some flying roughly on a par with my own. I note that I have flown more on AC then you BTW.
Perhaps, though, you might want to read posts and understand them as my complaint about Zip/AC and no service YYC-YEG has nothing to do with invasion of privacy and the rights of citizens to be presumed innocent so I still disagree with the sentiments expressed by many on this board. When I return to Canada I am never breaking any laws and I assume I am not going to be accused, in effect, of doing so and subjected to a search in public view, the latter being immensely different than the SECURITY searches PRIOR to boarding a plane.
I don't plan on posting on this thread again.
[This message has been edited by PunishedEdmontonian (edited 08-28-2003).]
Thanks PE. I apologize for that jab at the end of my last post as it was cheap and unnecessary. You are right in that the issues have nothing whatsoever to do with each other.
I guess we can agree to disagree on this matter, however, as I still don't feel the encounter at customs was excessive.
Firstly, if you read the form you fill out there is an explicit warning that it is a declaration and that you can face prosecution for lying. Thus by sending me to search they think I'm lying. If they're wrong, they should apologize.
How do you know that you weren't part of a random check?
No more smiling on passport photos, followed by national identity cards....what next? Microchips and administraion of sodium amythol at border crossings.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
My wife and I went through the same thing 2 months ago. After being in San Diego for over a week we returned and had a nice visit with the customs officer.
As I always do I had all of the receipts and everything declarable itemized and converted. He matched several items in our suitcases to the receipts, re-totaled everything, used a different exchange rate (lower) and away we went. However, his attitude not pleasant, very accusatory and wanting to find something. I new he wouldn't because it is not worth the hassle so we diligently declare everything, I believe it is not worth the hassle to try and get out of paying some GST and the unpleasant potential of some rubber gloves or worse.
We cross the border several times a year by land at YVR and through airports, I have found YEG the worse. YVR Peace Arch is always pleasant – How much? You tell them, then proceed to pay the GST and away you go.
Not sure why we went to a secondary screening as we were travelling with another couple with similar declared amounts as us and they were not screened. I think it is the luck of the draw.
As someone said "they do not apologize". Just answer the questions show them the receipts, be calm and leave quietly, then you can complain about them in the car and here to get it off our chests!
U.S. immigration and customs have been mostly and fairly nice/polite - making it seem like routine - and fast so far. If they pick you for a random search, they let you know upfront and give you a brochure explaning why, and who to write to if you wish to lodge a complaint. If they send you for an inspection, they just run your bags through x-ray which makes it fast (never more than a 3 minute wait for the whole thing). To be fair, customs at YVR have done that a few times too.
I got pulled after a one night trip to HKG, I had my toothpaste and shaving cream emptied by the two agents, even sodimized my Conrad bear!!!!..
I felt like a common criminal, again no apoligy.!
So I agree YVR are the rudest, but now its busy again its getting easier....
I have noticed in my travels and from posts here it has been alluded to, the impression is that going into the US and most other countries the emphasis is on security, while coming into Canada it seems that all they care about is collecting duties and taxes.
Friends that live in the states have indicated they have very little trouble getting back into their country.
they were doing their jobs why should they apologize to you. Unless they blatently verbally accused you of something then an apology would be in order.
P.S. I love how no matter what you talk about there is always an AC jab in there.
Firstly, if you read the form you fill out there is an explicit warning that it is a declaration and that you can face prosecution for lying. Thus by sending me to search they think I'm lying. If they're wrong, they should apologize.
Secondly, I wanted to have some "tie-in" to this board. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif Besides, people might be led to believe that AC actually has trans-border flights here when they do not.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
Completely false.
Yes, they do keep records when you are caught smuggling (you are told this when caught so its no secret) but not just if you get searched. Given the story as presented there is no apology required...sorry.Agree with that. I get send in there once in a while coming back from HKG (sometimes YVR sends the whole HKG flight in there http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif ). Last time I was sent in because the customs agent saw I went to Bangkok few months ago and thought a 6 days trip was too short http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif. Ended up chatting about computer stuff with the guy at secondary while he was doing the search. There are some nasty *****es there too and I've got them before.
As an aside, what would happen if your search was so long that it made you miss the only flight home that day? Who would be responsible for hotel, meals, and rebooking?
Unfortunately you would be on your own with perhaps sympathy from the airline to accomodate you on the next available flight.
I hated officers who did a half-baked job of searching travellers - the officer searching did not get to do an interview so should defer to the one that did and do his search properly.
PS - they always say its random, what else would you expect them to say?
So can someone please tell me what the Canada-US and NAFTA Free Trade agreements were all about if not to remove the imposition of fees and tarriffs on goods imported from the USA and Mexico?
It happened to me at YVR coming back from MIA last year. Maybe they thought I should have kids in tow or something if I was vacationing in Florida?
I have noticed in my travels and from posts here it has been alluded to, the impression is that going into the US and most other countries the emphasis is on security, while coming into Canada it seems that all they care about is collecting duties and taxes.
Exactly. Makes us feel like denizens of a third world country where there government depends on import duties for income.
Maybe CATSA screener can answer better than I, but you assume that since you were selected for a secondary screening, they automatically suspected you of something. Isn't it more of a random thing, that so many people on a certain day get selected at random for this secondary screening?
IMHO, an apology isn't owed in this case.
CATSA has nothing to do with this as it's Customs & Immigration and specifically CCRA.
Gee, I'd love to see that! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/smile.gif
But in seriousness, I think there is nothing unusual, particularly if you are declaring a slight bit over your limit. I recall when I did this, I was always sent to secondary. Never took this as a suspicion I had cheated or misstated what I was bringing in. Just the numerical chance, and possible followup on my declaration.
As a veterin of many MRs and MHDs, I suspect they know crazy people, and figured anyone who would go to PSP in the height of summer -- you mentioned 42 degrees -- AND have golf clubs, is bound to be of a questionable nature. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/wink.gif
I have read with much interest many of the replies here and am saddened by those who believe that being randomly searched is okay in Canada particularly where taxes are concerned. Not protesting this type of personal intrusion is yet another step in erosion of freedom.
No more smiling on passport photos, followed by national identity cards....what next? Microchips and administraion of sodium amythol at border crossings.... http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/frown.gif
...cue the music. http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/rolleyes.gif
Maybe the reason why you were selected for a secondary screening was this attitude. Did you give customs a piece of your mind during your interaction with customs officers? I have found that it's not helpful to be beligerent to the customs/security staff, however much we may feel it's justified.
I think you are blowing this episode way out of proportion.
They keep records too...once searched, expect more searches for your subsequent travels.
I believe this to be totally untrue. If you are searched and everything is cool, then I believe you would be less likely to be searched in future. Ever since my search at YYC after a short FRA mileage run, I have NEVER been searched since. That was years ago. Fingers crossed AND knocking on wood as I type this.
Perhaps, though, you might want to read posts and understand them as my complaint about Zip/AC and no service YYC-YEG has nothing to do with invasion of privacy and the rights of citizens to be presumed innocent so I still disagree with the sentiments expressed by many on this board. When I return to Canada I am never breaking any laws and I assume I am not going to be accused, in effect, of doing so and subjected to a search in public view, the latter being immensely different than the SECURITY searches PRIOR to boarding a plane.
I don't plan on posting on this thread again.
[This message has been edited by PunishedEdmontonian (edited 08-28-2003).]
P.S. I love how no matter what you talk about there is always an AC jab in there.
[This message has been edited by Ace Cdn (edited 08-26-2003).]
[This message has been edited by Ace Cdn (edited 08-26-2003).]
Some custom officers at YVR are the rudest and most arrogant people I've ever met in my life.
I have to second this. I have never been stopped so many times entering at YVR. This past July I had the intial agent. One standing behind the desks question me for ten minutes. Another agent approach at the baggage claim and question me further.
And finally all on board went through secondary to have our bags searched. It was a fantastic hour with customs agents. You would think they could at least ask different questions?
Agent who did the search was quite nice and when I asked what was with the intense security he said it was a bunch of students trying to keep busy. At least he put everything away for me when he was done.
[This message has been edited by stinger (edited 08-26-2003).]
The problem with YVR back along was when SARS was at its peak and there were no flights coming in, you had all these guys and girls at customs with nothing to do.
My bad experiences were 3-7 years ago. Limited my international arrivals at YVR since.
B
What I protest is random searching or being searched without an explanation for why I have been selected after it is apparent that I hadn't lied on my declaration. I also strongly object to having to sit in full view of everyone else exiting waiting for a Customs officer to show up.
If they wish to send a 'message' maybe they should randomly search a full plane load from time to time. I suspect they'd catch more than a few GST cheaters.
[This message has been edited by PunishedEdmontonian (edited 08-27-2003).]
If they wish to send a 'message' maybe they should randomly search a full plane load from time to time. I suspect they'd catch more than a few GST cheaters.
Not having worked at the airports I don't know if this is done but can certainly say that it has occurred with buses so you may not want to wish for this too hard!
IMHO, an apology isn't owed in this case.
1. Customs do not make mistakes.
2. Customs do not apologize. Ever.
3. When customs make a mistake, see 1 and 2.
They keep records too...once searched, expect more searches for your subsequent travels.
Completely false.
Yes, they do keep records when you are caught smuggling (you are told this when caught so its no secret) but not just if you get searched. Given the story as presented there is no apology required...sorry.
I used to work as a customs officer and while in my personal opinion most referrals are due to the agent having a feeling that you are not telling the truth or that there is something not quite right, there are also random referrals (with which I personally disagree) so it could have been either scenario.
There is a decreased expectation of privacy when you cross the border and being subject to search is one of the consequences.
While I have never been searched by US or Canadian customs, I have heard that US searches are FAR less pleasant.
If the agent was rude, accused you of something falsely etc... then by all means do contact the superintendent at YEG or even the Director (likely in Edmonton as well).
As FF's know, there are many airports in the world where randomness is practiced by pushing a button; a green light and you walk, a red light and you're searched. It's a great deterent!
I went through a bad patch with US Immigration many years ago. It seemed they had a file on somebody with my name and I was repeatedly questionned very closely. But it went away.
Upon my return to Canada via YYZ, from South America earlier this year, I was sent to secondary for the first time. I waited 10 mins before a woman came out to look at my bags. After going through the first one and found nothing but souvenirs (no receipts were asked), she waved me through. I, in a rebellious mood, asked her to search my other bag. I actually urged her and wanted her to search the much larger bag because she would find nothing and I wanted to proof to her she would find nothing. I asked her if this incident would mean that I would be searched again in the future and she said no and that it was a random thing that I got sent in. She was quite pleasant the whole time and I was smiling as well. A few feet away, a couple was getting heat for a camcorder they brought back. Serial numbers, receipts, it looked like they were very stressed out.
As an aside, what would happen if your search was so long that it made you miss the only flight home that day? Who would be responsible for hotel, meals, and rebooking?
A few years ago I was connecting in Calgary taking Continental to Houston and got sent to secondary. As it turned out, I found this out from US immigration when returning that someone with a similar name had done some bad things so I was scrutinized a bit more. But never since. When I was waiting, I had my hands in my pockets and he told me to take them out. When he found out what I do for a living (he mistakenly thought I was a doctor), he instantly became more polite.
They keep records too...once searched, expect more searches for your subsequent travels.
Can you hear the snap of the rubber gloves? http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
I have read with much interest many of the replies here and am saddened by those who believe that being randomly searched is okay in Canada particularly where taxes are concerned. Not protesting this type of personal intrusion is yet another step in erosion of freedom.
You will note that I do not agree with random referrals (and know of other officers that hated these and I think a random referral may be skating on somewhat shaky legal footing) but in your case we do not know why you were referred - there might have been something that was unusual, at least to the officer. I hated collecting taxes but loved the true enforcement aspects of the job.
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